Pro-poor+is+real+COSATU+candidate,+GS+Zwelinzima+Vavi,+S+Times

Sunday Times, Johannesburg, 24 September 2006
=Pro-poor is Cosatu’s real candidate=

//And Trevor Manuel’s not our man for finance minister,// **Zwelinzima Vavi** //tells// **Chris Barron** //in a one-on-one//


 * What makes you so sure that if Jacob Zuma becomes president he will be the pro-poor champion you’re looking for?**

We have not said that Jacob Zuma must be the president. We have never taken a resolution to that effect. There is no such policy. Support for him and the issue of leadership in the ANC are two separate things.


 * Do you see him as pro-worker and champion of the poor?**

In the context of the ANC broad church, yes, there is a general view in the federation that he is sympathetic to the workers and the issues we have been raising.


 * What kind of economic policy would you expect to see from whoever you end up supporting for president?**

Policies that are pro-poor and pro-working class and that address the problems we have identified. The principal problem is that the first decade of democracy benefited capital more than workers and the poor. We would expect policies that reverse that. We want policies that address the growing disparity of income between workers and managers. We want to address the growing social gap ... we want an active developmental state.


 * Are you satisfied that Zuma would be the leader to implement these policies?**

In September next year we will come closer to that.


 * Do you know where he stands on the policies you’ve mentioned?**

He has been saying interesting things in many union meetings.


 * Has he made any promises?**

No.


 * Has he said enough to persuade you that he’d be the man to back?**

In my opinion he still has to say more about his thinking. If I advise workers that this is the way they should go, I must be absolutely certain that I am not going to live to regret that.


 * He has said that he wants to see a stronger rand.**

When I heard that I was quite concerned because that is such a contradiction to what we stand for. Cosatu clearly doesn’t share his view on that matter.


 * He has also said that if he became president he’d want Trevor Manuel to continue as finance minister.**

Obviously I don’t share his view on that matter.


 * He has been very much part of the government’s economic policy process. Does that concern you?**

It’s a concern to me that the working class seems to have lost the strategic initiative outside the constitutional structures of the ANC. You’ve got ANC policy conferences in my view that are quite progressive. But we are unable to sustain that strategic level outside ANC structures.


 * If Zuma became president would it be payback time?**

If I am still the general secretary I will say there is no free lunch. He would have to remember that if it was not for Cosatu he would certainly not be in the position he is in today.


 * What is your response to Sydney Mufamadi’s statement that there should be more debate about economic policy in the tripartite alliance?**

I’m encouraged. Gear was introduced as non-negotiable in 1996. We were told there was no space for debate whatsoever. I think the response to Cosatu’s jobs and poverty campaign has forced the government to rethink. Today I hear only the minister of finance championing Gear. But even he would be the first to concede privately that they have shifted the goalposts. They have relaxed the monetary policy. Social expenditure has increased.


 * Why were there so many resolutions about nationalisation at the conference?**

I suspect they were inspired by growing levels of anger and desperation, and the fact that the key problems of the working class have not been resolved 12 years down the line.


 * If your candidate became president what would you expect him to nationalise?**

Exactly what the Freedom Charter said. The mining industry, the banks, the leading monopolies … we have not drawn up an exhaustive list. We want the state to play a much bigger role in the economy than it does now. That’s the bottom line.


 * What of the repercussions on investment, on our international credit rating?**

We’ve got to get the international community to understand that investments are important to any economy.


 * So you believe that foreign investment is important?**

Absolutely.


 * Are foreigners likely to invest in a context of sweeping nationalisation?**

Possibly, yes. If it is done in an orderly way. I’m not talking about the Zimbabwe style of nationalisation. Use profits to fix our education system, to fix our health system. That would be a huge statement to any company.


 * Do you foresee increasing militancy in the labour movement?**

Yes. The tragic misconception of 1994 in the minds of the workers was that democracy would solve their problems. Now there’s a growing realisation that democracy can coexist with poverty and growing inequality.


 * What is casualisation of labour doing to the union movement?**

It is fragmenting the working class.


 * Will it emasculate labour as a force?**

Completely.


 * How will this affect the increasing militancy you’re talking about?**

Yes, you’re right, you’re right. It’s something that could completely sideline us as a political force.


 * So by the time a new president is elected you and your policy might be irrelevant?**

If we don’t do organisational development and renewal processes in each and every union, that moment will come maybe sooner than two years. If we don’t get better co-ordination and solidarity between permanent workers and casual workers and the unemployed, we are doomed. Because very soon you will have internecine wars between them.


 * So unless you improve your act very quickly...**

We’re finished.


 * From: http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/articles/article-business.aspx?ID=ST6A208962**

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