Zwelinzima+Vavi,+So+Many+Questions,+STimes,+05-06-12



=So Many Questions: COSATU General Secretary Zwelinzima Vavi.=

Sunday Times, Johannesburg, 12 June 2005
The COSATU boss has come out in full support of Deputy President Jacob Zuma, and has had some choice things to say about Judge Hilary Squires. **Chris Barron** asked him...

Are you saying that it’s fine for South Africa to be led by someone who has been implicated in corruption?

Zwelinzima Vavi: No. All I’m saying is that before we can write off the future, the career, of anyone tainted and with serious allegations hovering over his head, we’ve got to give that person an opportunity to defend himself in a court of law.

Chris Barron: Would you like to see Zuma being charged?

ZV: Absolutely. That’s what I would expect the NPA (National Prosecuting Authority) to do. I think it is in the best interests of the deputy president, and the NPA, to — now that the judge has said the things that he has said — confront the deputy president in a court of law.

CB: Even if this might rule him out of the race for president?

ZV: Look, honestly, I want to tell you that we do not have blind loyalty to Zuma or to anyone. If it is proven that indeed he misused his political power in a corrupt way, we will say completely the opposite of what we are saying now.

CB: How do you feel about Zuma being implicated to the extent he has been?

ZV: The implication is, let me say, devastating. We are devastated that he is implicated in the manner that he has been implicated. But to us that is just an allegation. We want a process to begin where he will be able to clear his name, if he has other evidence or another aspect of what could have happened that would make an independent person come to another conclusion.

CB: Are you suggesting that Judge Squires is not independent?

ZV: No, no, no. Judge Squires was hearing a case against Schabir Shaik, not Zuma. He could only come to whatever conclusion on the basis of evidence provided by the witnesses of the state and the responses of Schabir Shaik, not Jacob Zuma. That’s a critical difference.

CB: Would you accept a guilty verdict if Zuma were convicted?

ZV: Absolutely. Let me tell you we’d be devastated, we’d be very, very sorry that he would have involved himself in acts of corruption. But we fully embrace the principle of an independent judiciary in the country. It’s a cornerstone of our democracy; even if it makes pronouncements we don’t like and doesn’t take our political considerations forward.

CB: Don’t your attacks on Judge Squires damage the principle you say you support so much?

ZV: There has to be a balance here. In South Africa it is almost impossible that any matter of significance could happen without us looking backward to our past. COSATU, over and over, has raised the issue of the need to speed up the processes of transforming the judiciary. Now we have made the same observations, not with the intention of trying to interfere with the detail of what the judgment is saying, but to say that this issue is bound to arise — in this case or in any other thing that happens in the country.

CB: So if Zuma were found guilty by a white judge, would you still accept it?

ZV: I would, certainly. Colour doesn’t matter. Not everything that is said by a white man is wrong. Surely, if we believed in that it would be goodbye to our democracy.

CB: Would you expect Zuma to step down as deputy president for the duration of the case?

ZV: I think he would have to step aside until the verdict had been given.

CB: By which time it might be too late for him to run for president ...

ZV: Well, that would be a practical issue, then, not an issue of principle.

CB: What would your position be if the President fired him?

ZV: I would oppose that as a matter of principle.

CB: What action would COSATU take?

ZV: We would take no action, unless pressured to do so by members.

CB: Would it endanger the alliance if he were fired?

ZV: Listening to people, that is the implication. This is heavy stuff. Zuma is not some lightweight.

CB: Can you appreciate that the President might be forced to tell Zuma to go, for the sake of South Africa’s international standing and image?

ZV: The President will make that call on the basis of his assessment of the situation as a whole. But he will have to listen to his own constituency, too, and look at the matter in terms of its political implications for all of us.


 * From: http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/articles/article.aspx?ID=ST6A124889